Finding a new rhythm for tourism | Andreas Koch from Tourythm

Andreas Koch

[: 00:00:00

We'll be talking about how he has seen sustainable tourism evolve both before and after Covid 19. About what hotels, destinations. Travelers can do to make travel a force for good, and also something which I find really interesting, how to incorporate the inner [00:01:00] development goals into the mix. If you haven't heard about the inner development goals before you will today, so just stay tuned.

But before we get started, don't forget to catch. Travel toolkit, which is a fantastic resource. If you want to plan a flight free or flight light journey, you will find that about halfway through the episode and to dive even deeper into this and many other resources, perfect for happy Roamers like us.

lax, and let's dive into the [: 00:02:00

Welcome so much to roaming roots, Andreas, I'm so, so happy that you could be here. Big pleasure to be with you and I have to pronounce your name correctly, Wesley Mo, but uh, I have to learn that. Thanks so much for being with you. Yeah, it's not that easy for foreigners to say my name, so that's okay. No problem.

Uh, but first of all, I have realized. Uh, what a great guest and big resource I have with me today just by doing the research on you, like reading your LinkedIn post and everything that you've been working on for 25 years in the sustainable tourist industry. I. Just by doing that, I learned so much. So even before we start.

, uh, you're writing. Thanks [: 00:03:00

Fantastic. That will be normally half a day or a day that I introduce that, uh, because it's a long story on that. But basically I, I, I am a biologist by myself. And, uh, then I went, uh, to the northern countries, um, to Sweden and studied environmental management and policy. And based on that, I realized, um, that I wish to work in the tourism industry because it's such a connecting, uh, world.

e the sustainability manager [: 00:04:00

And, um, based on that, I basically did two things. I founded, uh, or I co-founded an ngo, which is now. The biggest, um, sustainable tourism, uh, NGO in Germany, Austria and Switzerland here, and we are financing projects all over the world. I did this for 5, 6, 6 years basically on my free time because I believed in the power of networking because.

When I went in in the destinations, I always realized that's where we come together and we need to join forces. At the same time, I met people that try everything to, to, to make this world a better place and they have sell the money. So my idea was that, and Joe was also to. To push money to those people.

ike the word consulting, but [: 00:05:00

I'm a believer that an optimist, despite all the challenging times we have, I'm an optimist that we can create a better world. And I realize that tourism can be a very good means, a very good multipl for that world. And I'm sure we will dive into that. Yes, we will. And, uh, so from, first of all, where are you?

st share a bit, a little bit [: 00:06:00

Uh, yeah, sure. I mean, blue Contact is a company I, I've, I found it with, uh, um, with other people, um, in 2010. And this is a company where we focused first on energy, so we wanted to. People and hotels and, and destinations on saving energy. So that was the main focus of, uh, of, uh, blue contact. Mm-hmm. . Um, that's also the contact with technology.

Yeah, that's, that's the logic behind that. Um, and together with other people, engineers, we have done now 500 energy audits with hotels, uh, in Europe, in Germany, um, also in Mauritius, and we. We, we believe that this is a very good entry into the sustainability discussion because it, it immediately gives you advantages.

ause if you dive into energy [: 00:07:00

Yeah. So then we dived into, into supply chain management. We dived into what is the impact of employees for saving energy. And from that, um, the. Um, um, um, was arranged of supporting, um, destinations to operators and others in other means than just energy and tourism is like, is something that came to me in, in Co in the Corona Times because I realized that the tourism industry was hit very hard by Corona.

t hit so hard by Corona, but [: 00:08:00

So what if we use it in the other way? What if tourism can spread the virus of sustainability, the virus of a new world? And that's, that's, I was looking for a name, uh, for that. And then the name came to me like tourism, like the combination of rhythm and, and, and, and, and, and, um, yeah. And tourism. Yeah.

ism. So contact evolved into [: 00:09:00

Tell people we are believing in the force of tourism in, in the force of for good. Yes. I read on, on, uh, on your web, website or tourisms, uh, website that you write. Uh, and this is then related to, to C O v. . We went from over tourism to no tourism, correct and tourism is clearly outta balance and needs a new rhythm to safeguard a very basis of tourism and become a blueprint for a better world.

mm. . But as you say, it can [: 00:10:00

So how, how do you, through, through tourism, and maybe you could just mention, uh, your, some examples of your work through that. How, how do you work to, to let tourism be a force for. Mm. I have to think what is a, what are good examples? Um, I'm just coming from a, from a, from a, from a meeting yesterday where I was able to, uh, support and accompany, uh, four hotels here in Germany for one year.

give space to that, to that [: 00:11:00

Um, see that people are connecting to it. Okay, so this is what happens. So for example, there was one, one lady, um, I, I did a three months coaching with her on, on all the aspects of sustainability and. Then I ask her if she can do the training with her team. And, um, she said, no, I, I can't, I, I said, come on, let's, let's, let's do the concept and they do it.

And then she did it. And I realized once she did it, she, she was putting herself on that stage and she felt so confident and she was reaching out to all the employees in her, in her hotel and was quite a big hotel and. It started to ripple off, and that's, that's where this rhythm starts. And this is what I'm trying to create.

e started that herself. And, [: 00:12:00

How did we do that? We, um, we, we invited farmers. Food producers and hold us to join forces to create it. We gave them the stage again to say, how could you join forces to become a sustainable food destination? So the farmers, um, were trained by, by, by, uh, so tourism cost to become, um, um, yeah, biological originator farmers and we, Maria and me were working with the hotels to connect the farmers and [00:13:00] the hotels.

How do we do that? Tastings of the product. Mm-hmm. So we invited the farmers and the producers to be in the hotel and it took us one, one and a half years. And then I realized, , it became a rhythm. It became something that ripples off. Yes. It became something that is good for the hotels because they have a new, authentic experience.

It's good for the farmers because it's more healthy, it's good products. They could sell it to the hotels and it's good for the destinations be because it's, it helps them to save God, the, the, the, their destination and, and so. . If you find that, um, effects, then you're creating a rhythm. And, um, if you then can inspire.

. And then they offered, um, [: 00:14:00

The hotel Lia Park, for example, on the island here, which was part of that project. So this is the thing, I mean, when I'm talking about rhythm, that's it's, if you are in that, I, I could give you other examples on Mauritius where we did the same in a way where we worked with small enterprises and supported them.

To join forces with, uh, with producers. And, and whenever you see that happening, you see that you, you, you started to inspire a network that is self replicators. Yes, it is. It, it becomes a dynamic. And that's, that's how I feel when I talk about tourism. Fantastic. Uh, . I, I maybe, I suspect what you're going to answer to this, but, uh mm-hmm.

said now, and also what I've [: 00:15:00

You can create. I see. The push and, and the, the impact coming from different, um, areas right now, 20 years ago is what was not like that, I have to say. But right now the push comes from different angles. One is, as you're saying, the legislators, the, the legislation around us, for example, a eu, we have a new legislation about the reporting mechanism, how.

push into the market, um, of [: 00:16:00

It comes from the back door, but it influences your management model. So that's one side of that. The other is, um, you have changing guest expectations. The value of sustainability is becoming a core part of society. So you see more and more people asking for it. Mm-hmm. It's not the majority. Yeah, no. We are still talking about 5, 10, 15, 20% growing, but it's not the majority.

gs, I often ask that people, [: 00:17:00

So I wanted to see my values. I wanted to, yeah, have a purpose in my work. So some people think that it's about the guests that are getting young and have that expectation. No. Often it's the employees that because we have this demand, Employees in, in the tourism world that in Corona times, um, the tourism world realize that more many employees realize that's hard work and tourism, long time working weekends working.

and especially younger ones [: 00:18:00

And if you then stimulate. This different players to act together. For example, the local suppliers that are looking for new source markets. Another trend was that many people realized that the global, um, value chain, the globalization, is also very sensitive in, in, in times of Corona. Um, and so they tried to become more local and if they looked then for local suppliers, the local suppliers were also looking for good bonds to local people.

m doing also harm. Um, there [: 00:19:00

Yeah. But I'm long enough in the market to, to see the bad side of, of tourism as.

In today's travel toolkit, I bring you a resource. I have been really looking forward to sharing with you. This is a company which is quite young, I believe founded during the Covid 19 lockdown, but wow. They look great already. The name is by way, and they're a travel company, which creates travel and accommodation packages away from the normal tourist traps using trains, bikes, buses, and fer.

ustom made trip by answering [: 00:20:00

In the other end is a completely planned trip with hotels, transportation, prices, and everything else. You can adjust it to your liking and when you're happy with what you have, you just book. I haven't tried it myself yet, but it's really tempting and it looks like they have a great customer support team to help you both before and during your trip.

ally, because you, with your [: 00:21:00

So then I would really like to separate between like the years leading up to Covid, so maybe the last 10 years or 10 years before Covid, and then Covid and post covid. What changes have you seen? Hmm. . Well, to be honest with you, the years before Covid, uh, were, um, um, yeah, well, very successful. Successful, huh?

elements, like look at like [: 00:22:00

People were complaining about the, the, the big impact that tourism has, uh, on, on their living standards and the inhabitants of, of cities. And look at, um, what are so shortages, um, look at energy, um, costs. Um, and so we had a lot of challenges, but it was still a growth. , then Corona came and it was, everything was on hold.

And um, that's where people. Got the chance to reflect. I mean, everyone, uh, going through Corona had a chance to reflect and because it was a quieter time. And, and sometimes people, when I talk to them, I had this question, for example, in my mind, um, what did change by Corona and I, for example, did a bike tour from South Germany to North Germany.

I asked them, what, what is [: 00:23:00

We had the three months window, for example, in Germany where, where tourism was up again, and then everyone wanted to do something. And many people realized that, that this is a challenge. Islands like salt in Germany. The inhabitants realized how nice the island is without the tourists. Yeah. Um, it's strange, but in a way, and then they realized we want to have part of it always in our life.

see that many are suffering. [: 00:24:00

So we are having dying SMEs in the market. The ones who have done their job in the last 10 years are the successful ones coming back right now. . Some people say, oh my dear, we have to focus on the financial situation right now. We cannot talk about sustainability. Mm-hmm. and the other side, um, are saying, well, this is exactly the, the alarm clock.

bout that. Uh, right now we, [: 00:25:00

And that's why many doors are. And one door is especially open, that is in the T tourism world. We talk about the dmo, so destination management organizations. Mm-hmm. or destination marketing organizations who are actually managing a destination. They were doing marketing the last 10 years, 20 years as their business as a novel business.

hange management, and that's [: 00:26:00

They're tourism actors because they. Marketing is nice. Mm-hmm. . But if we do a nice marketing and we have no one in the destination this extreme, no one in the destination who is actually creating that experience. Then we have a really a problem. So it moves away and there are a lot of push in the market who, who actually favor sustainability in, in, in, in these times.

I hope I could describe it. Yeah. Like different. But do you, do you think that we have been, uh, good enough to take away, like, uh, learn. Uh, from the, the pandemic. And, and if you, if you think about like in, in other parts of business, for instance, like how we have learned to be digital, do meetings online and not travel so much in work, for instance.

nd then we're almost back to [: 00:27:00

That's what hap what's happen. In, in many destinations, um, like many destinations say, wow, we are back to the, to the, to the, to the guest numbers that we had before Kuna, that's a great success, but that's the one side. They are playing the game of going back to normal. Mm. But. My, my feeling, and I have a double education also on psychology, is that I [00:28:00] realized that below that surface people have learned something, and whenever I do, um, trainings, I can connect to that, what they learned.

So I, I, I simply asked them if Corona is here to ask us a. , what would that question be? And I leave an open discussion, for example, in the room. Mm-hmm. , many people come to the point that we need to join forces to create, um, future, a healthy future for us. All. That's the underlying answer that people are giving to me.

e way we operate this world. [: 00:29:00

And that the question and the, the tasks are getting more urgent. You see that these underlying, um, questions are there and if you open up the space for those, you can connect to that. And, um, that's what I really try to do in, in, in, in many of our work. . And I think this is a very good way into another topic, which is very related.

our bucket list or whatever. [: 00:30:00

is the IDGs in their development goals. Uh, Tell us about this movement and how, how, why you have chosen to spend some time on it. Because I think this relates to, to everything that you're talking about in, in tourism as well. Absolutely. Well, the interesting part for me is, um, that, um, We, we, I mean, you know, the sustainability agenda is out there for 20, 30, 40 years.

nt goals were only created in: 2015

Mm-hmm. while, for example, in hygiene. Of course we have legislation we are at close to, uh, we have to be at 100% because it's the legislation quality as well, by the way, but, tourism, we are at this two speed, four, 5%, and we are there for the last 20 years. Mm-hmm. . So we have to be very honest on where are the challenges, where are the borders?

ggest purpose in this world. [: 00:32:00

Mm-hmm. So, for example, in tourism, I have the circles of inference and the circle starts with yourself, with your attitude, with your values. And that's when I first read about the IDGs, uh, in a development course. I said, wow, this is exactly the right movement at the right time. Because it always starts with yourself and it, it starts with your attitude.

And this is. It always starts into a movement. If I'm talking about tourism, I'm talking about an inner attitude and inner value that changes an inner shift in yourself, that you realize that this is not the way forward. And if you realize that this is not the way forward. How could you, and that are my most inspiring moments.

f that movement? Mm-hmm. For [: 00:33:00

Have to say he was smoking. He was smoking quite a, quite, quite tough and I don't like smoking . But, um, uh, and we were talking for three hours about what I believe and then what role he can play. And he was challenging me, was hard asking a hard question, and after this three hours he said, you convinced.

sociation in, in his country [: 00:34:00

And I'm, and that's where I always believe. It's a face-to-face moment where we can talk honestly, like we do know about our feelings, our purpose, our our, our sense of being. And if we do that very openly, Many people connect to that. And, and from there it starts. So this was a long, short, uh, long story about why I love the IDGs and, um, why I joined now this movement because I, I think they are doing a fantastic job on, on, on really balancing the sustainability agenda, which is topic driven.

an we create and hold space, [: 00:35:00

Um, Like our thoughts, our fears perhaps, and everything around how the, the world is developing. But also within tourism specifically, you have this, you have launched this magazine, uh, under tourism, and that is gold and, and totally free Isn't. Yes. So everybody, and so, so thank you . That is a lot of great information.

his summer. Um, I had a chat [: 00:36:00

And we had a chat. Uh, it's a young, powerful lady that, um, really. I connected to. She said, well, I, I wanna be part of that change, and I, let's do something. What can we do? Mm-hmm. , and we were talking for 3, 4, 5 hours and, uh, the time run by. And at the end of that we said, we need to create a space. We need to.

Listen to the voices in the tourism ministry that are often not heard. Mm-hmm. Sometimes we listen to the big voices like, um, like the big corporations, but often change happens at the, at the outer space, now at the, at the wider . Like really the, at the per fair. Mm. And we said, let's give voice to the people in the world that changed the tourism for the better with, with.

mission, and we said, is it [: 00:37:00

and we try to give them the floor and we, uh, want to have their stories. And, and, uh, before Christmas we had the first meeting with, with the first, um, 14 Changemaker. The first protagonists of that first three magazines, uh, was so fantastic to that each of one listened to the story of, of the other. Mm-hmm.

agazine for? The magazine is [: 00:38:00

People also like me, feel sometimes lonely because we feel like, wow, are we doing the only one doing that job? Are we doing the only ones believing in that? You might know that feeling at some point, and so there we create a space of community. And the outer space is all the people that we could inspire with that movement and say, well, there are stories like, um, the homestay stories, which is the same by the way in Africa if you read the stories and Nepal, that they involve local people to create homestays along, for example, a the Coco track for example, also as well, where they involve local people and, um, Or [00:39:00] Sheen and Mauritius with her story to create Maiden Morris, like with, with a local network.

10 years of her heart was going into that. So there are great stories of people that that. Are changing the world and we didn't want to have theory inside of that magazine. We want to talk to people that have done things that believed in things and have done things. And so the wider audience of that is once we are getting to that point, right now we are launching the Force Magazine and it's a lot of work behind the scenes and yeah.

and it's for free. It's like it's our contribution, um, to a better world. We always have this mixture of professional work where we of course get money and, but some of. . You, you just do because you believe in things. Mm-hmm. , like founding an ngo, like doing a podcast like you, I mean, there are so many people that do things, and this is the vision of that tourism magazine to have a wider audience listening to that.

creating seminars hopefully [: 00:40:00

Yeah, it must. So we are strongly believing that we are creating a community and we don't know where the parcel is leading, but. asking the people in that community, what do you need? Mm-hmm. , we wanna serve you. What do you need? You get visibility from us, from us, you get vis, uh, connection from us. We meet once every two, three months to, to come together, but we don't know where we are going.

ity much more in the future. [: 00:41:00

Fantastic. Um, and. , one of the, like, the, the biggest outcomes that I want to, to get from this podcast is, uh, like for myself and for everybody else wondering about the same things, uh, a better understanding about how I, I as a, like a, Person or a, an individual can and who wants to be, be a global citizen and wants to learn from other cultures and people.

because it involves travel. [: 00:42:00

So, and today I, I'm a bit like, it, it. I think, I feel it's, it's a bit difficult for people to, to know where to start, what to prioritize, and what to focus on the most. So do you have any , like great solutions for me? Let's say I'm planning my, my next summer holiday with my family. Where do I start? What do I think about?

common goods movement to do [: 00:43:00

But what is a good way as a company, but you're talking about the traveler side. How can you be a good traveler? . And, um, first I really think it's very important to understand the values of the people you're visiting. Um, and to really try, if you are going for a holiday, try to look behind the scenes, try to find information and maybe call them or, um, you find normally good networks of, um, Like really, um, websites that are pushing like, uh, eco, uh, um, eco Airbnb.

rtifications often are, are. [: 00:44:00

So try to get a human touch about who do you visit, because it's basically a face-to-face business. And once you are there, um, really try to connect to all the people I had so beautiful chats to housekeeping. A woman or men, like for example, last time I visited them, like there was a lady from Iraq and explaining me that she came here and that she was not treated very well, but in this huddle hotel she was treated very well.

are hydrogen power, um, um, [: 00:45:00

Right now the only solution that we have is compensation and do, do look for a good, um, company that's, uh, compensating your, your flights on that if you're doing your flights. I, for example, really used. Corona also to explore my country or not. I was often going away, but I realized how beautiful it is in, in Europe.

I did a beautiful train ride from north, uh, Finland to Madrid, uh, uh, with a train, and there was a very fantastic experience for me. So I'm, I'm moving away to use different modes of transportation. Mm. I'm also going in the direction of, um, Using the transport as part of my, uh, of part of my holiday. Yes.

, but if you go there with a [: 00:46:00

Yeah. But, um, be really careful of, of the people, because the people is like with, with, with how you buy your products, the people you are supporting with the way you choose your travel. That ripples off this values of those people ripple off. And of course I have a chance to meet a lot of good and destinations where I'm, I'm, I'm sure that's, that's fantastic.

management is different. So [: 00:47:00

So, so last question then. Um, you al already mentioned, um, like, uh, flying and hopefully. New fuel types coming as soon, but do you see any other like game changers in the horizon when it comes to travel and tourism something that you see that, okay, when this happens it will just change the way that we look at travel and uh, or, or do you travel?

through the, any of the big [: 00:48:00

So my hope, my, my, my hope for a game changer is that we have a chance, and I'm sure it will come up soon, that we have a chance. To dive into the, the values, the authentic authenticity of a destination or, um, of, of the people who are serving, uh, um, uh, us through a digital. Through, through an advanced digital system where we can maybe talk to them virtually where we can, um, uh, we have sometimes the 360 degrees where you can really go around that destination.

cause then you might realize [: 00:49:00

For example, here I have a, uh, an old farmhouse where I often like to go. and I have a connection to that people. Mm-hmm. and because I visit them, um, I'm there and I'm pretty sure like we are now connecting here and I have a feeling where we can sit in the same room and I'm pretty sure there will be digital systems coming up that support that kind of.

at you call it, Oculus, this [: 00:50:00

Christmas. And so I was actually going up, uh, Matterhorn the mountain a few weeks ago, , and I wasn't actually, but I was there and it's so fascinating. So if you can use that and, and use that technology. to talk to people to visit the hotel and see it beforehand and get to know people. Good point. Yeah, that would be really fantastic.

I think it'll happen. Yeah. Don't you think so? Yes, absolutely. If you, if you have experienced that, uh, it's, um, yeah. It's, it's amazing. Yeah. I've been there down the mud on, it was a, oh, Where's my parents? It was interesting. My father always wanted to take a train through the Alps, so our present to him as he turned, uh, 70, was uh, to, to take that train and we ended up in, in Saint Martin.

arents, and, uh, was amazing [: 00:51:00

As I said, you're a great resource, uh, of uh, great inform. Thanks so much and really pleasure to be here and, um, talking to you about my dreams and I'm pretty sure our dreams are connected. Yes, absolutely. But last thing, where do, where do you pe want people to interact with you or find your work? What's the best place?

y, my phone, my uh, my email [: 00:52:00

I know look at that sites anymore, but, uh, things have changed a lot. So, but these two sides are, Good ways of connecting. Yeah. And you're also quite, uh, active on LinkedIn and, uh oh, please. Yes. Yeah, con LinkedIn would be the best. Of course. You're right on that. Yeah. Um, I, I'm publishing put everything, everything.

So good. Yes, you are. And, and very good, uh, stuff. So I will put everything in the show notes. Thank you so much, much. Pleasure.

it with a plane and a fuel, [: 00:53:00

I have recently adopted the term. Flexi Arian, which to me means I am doing the best that I can without choosing either all or nothing. But that's it for this one already. Looking forward to the next happy roaming and I will talk to you soon.